Post by Madhatter on Aug 7, 2006 23:05:15 GMT
I've recently had another conversation on the other atherstone forum as usual I got lies as answers, apparently I was banned unbanned, banned, unbanned, then came back as firefox, then came back as ohdear which was me and now I'm jay of course.
I could answer paul turner on his site but I'll do it here as he A keeps deleting my posts, which I'll list below, B keeps coming out with ever more bizarre lies about me being banned unbanned. C keeps banning me.
He's deleted the posts because he has the truth to hide, but I asked
"Interesting yes, perhaps Madhatter woke up smelled the coffee.
Do you feel that this site is a success, has it provided the people of the town a place to openly discuss things, a place for free speech, make new friends, get help and advice, and to promote the town, the book town, by discussing what should be done, what needs to be done, what needs to be changed, and by helping people tourists and people looking to move to Atherstone.
In my opinion you need glasses or a brain transplant if you do. This site is a three headed monster that has helped kill the booktown, put god knows how many off setting shops up in the town or moving there.
Mike goodenough recently said to me, yet another atherstone site, do they ever stop fighting in Atherstone. The answer would have to be, it appears not."
Paul answered with this
"Jay,
I have to give you a frank answer.
This site has helped the town in a number of ways. It has allowed discussion of local issues and particularly helped individuals to find old friends/family, organisations to promote local events and people who have moved away to keep in touch with what is going on here.
On the other hand it has had some negative effects.
We have made it clear that any negative comments about local businesses (including the Booktown) will not be tolerated on this site. I have had enough crap from people whose comments I have had to remove to last me a lifetime!!! However, it does appear to be the case that negativity expressed by a few people may have put potential bookshop owners off opening shops here.
I think you have to ask yourself a question regarding this:
If a potential business owner is willing to change his/her mind about starting a business based on the views of a small number of web forum users who can't seem to post anything positive whatever the subject is, then is that potential business owner really the sort of person that should be starting a business?
This is hardly the place to research a market! And that applies to bookshops AND any other business. The world is full of examples of people who have done well DESPITE the negativity of everyone around them as they were starting out. It is also full of examples of people who have given up at the first hurdle and blamed everything but themselves.
Web forums are, by their very nature, miserable negative places dominated by miserable people who always know better than everybody else about any subject. It is far easier to argue when hidden behind a nickname. These people would not be so quick to argue in face-to-face situations or even if they had to take ownership of their comments.
So, what do we do?
I have considered many many times whether to close this forum. It has caused me plenty of hassle over the last few years with little reward. It is a thankless task when everything you do will be considered wrong by somebody. You're damned if you censor stuff and you're damned if you don't.
The forum is here as a place where people can discuss local issues. It is only that. The views of those that post are not the views of us. We only provide the place to do the discussion. We are no more to blame for negativity than pub owners are for the discussion that takes place in their establishments.
I read EVERY SINGLE post and I can tell you, it is extremely boring sometimes! I do it to ensure that I am not held responsible for leaving libellous comments here and to ensure that whatever does get posted is not detrimental to the town's reputation. However, that leads to accusations of me manipulating the content of this forum.
Removing the forum would lead to other places being used for Atherstone discussion and I, personally, don't trust those other websites to behave responsibly in protecting the reputation of this town which, to be fair, is a very very good place to live with it's low crime rate, easy road access to the rest of the country as well as local larger towns and cities and its very friendly atmosphere.
Do I wish we'd never created this monster? Yes. I do. But we did and it's up to us to keep working on getting more positive contributions. It has certainly been much better lately.
With regard to MadHatter, he was a very positive member of this forum and very keen to say good things about the town. Unfortunately, he made a comment which offended another member and refused to remove it. Whether or not I agreed with his comment is irrelevant. Another member was offended so I removed it. MadHatter reposted the comment every time I removed it. I therefore banned him temporarily. When I lifted his ban in the hope that he had calmed down he immediately began posting messages about the same issue, repeating his accusations about that same member and accusing me of favouring that person over him.
I banned him a second time and let him back again, because of his past record of giving a positive contribution. He AGAIN came back, under different names, pretending to be somebody else supporting MadHatter's position and attacking both me and the member he had offended in the first place. I banned him a third time. He then got another member here to e-mail the content of this forum to him so he could set up his own forum, using the material from here to create discussion there, again attacking me.
I got sick of it. I am not the sort to go punching somebody's lights out because they annoy me, but if I was...........
He will be welcome back when he lets go of the issue and if he can convince me that he can behave like an adult. Understandably, I think, I trust him far less than I did."
to which I answered
"Just checked his posts, doesn't look like Madhatter has been used since your first ban, there are no posts about being banned. In fact he claims you never unbanned it in his subsequent names, in which he never claims to be anyone but himself. ??) I think you imagine things.
Are you sure you know how this forum works? A banned member can read everything you say, and download content. If you don't know that, are you sure you know how to unban an account?
Sounds to me like you create the problems on this site.
Sometimes you need to let negative posts remain, if only so that they can be discussed and debated. A negative thread about a booktown will only ever be a negative thread about a booktown if you close it before anyone can put a positive side to it. Leaving it open to debate will let all different views be aired and most of the time will balance out the negative. However if it remains negative and there is no positive side then only positive can come from this.
As for not trusting other websites to protect the reputation of the town, the above applies again. They also seem to be promoting the town rather than damaging the reputation of it. If a book shops closes such as Atherstone bookshop, which has closed and been replaced with a bookshop run by the heritage centre, then that story should be reported. The negative has a positive that also gets reported on those sites."
the above post was deleted along with the top post when paul posted this
MadHatter's (Jay's) posts deleted above and he has been banned again. I have left my response as his original question was quite a good one which deserved an answer. I responded before I realised that MadHatter was behind it AND with an agenda to lead onto further attacks on us."
the above was posted at 6.34, and I've since deleted two posts altered two, pm'd electrosoldier and wrinkley, this reinforces the point that he doesn't know how to work his own forum.
I should point out that I've never been able to access my madhatter name since it was first banned, so this is yet more lies. New allegations this time that I got someone to email me content, this is on top of allegations of me being firefox, lies that he has unbanned my account lies that another person on the forum has posted content on here, and lies that I stole content off the site and used it on here. Also false allegations from dpickard remain on the site accusing me of claiming he is a corrupt councilor which I have never done, that I am firefox.
I will expect more slanderous and abusive posts to be left on the forum and not deleted from the other members same as before.
All this makes me ask the question, when is a forum or site an asset to a town. Is a site that closes every critical thread before theres a chance for a balanced discussion to develop a damage to a town.
Personally I think paul closing the threads form Mark Bennett and leaving an announcement that he'd been banned while hiding the actual thread had a very negative impact on the booktown project. He tries to hide things that don't suit his own opinions, such as my comments above, clearly can't administrate the site, I had to tell him how to change thread titles, he previously deleted threads because he didn't know how to do it. He didn't know threads can be merged or split either. All this leads to content being deleted when there's no need to and threads that look a mess. This creates a bad impression of the forum and the town, as does his constant lies.
Atherstone organised has run stories both negative and positive, it is after all a news as well as an information site. I think it gives a balanced view and has done far more for the town than the above site ever will.
Atherstone booktown site, it took over a year to get a page other than a page with no links, now we have a site thats so out of date it will soon be antique. The murder mystery weekend was months ago, Atherstone bookshop has been replaced by another bookshop and we are still waiting for this new bookshop. An out of date site is a bad advertisement for the town.
Atherstone org appears to be dead which is a shame it was quite good although not updated for a while to the best of my knowledge.
Dickens night is a great site informative, well laid out lots of information and pictures
Carnival site, well what can I say the sites great, but we haven't really had a great carnival to post pics of yet, the forum is a farce. I got banned for answering a slating post about a member here who dared to criticise the Queens float. Based on that site I'd question whether they are infact up to running the carnival.
So there we have it for each negative there's a positive site.
I'm not sure where to put this site, maybe I'm creating a monster to but whatever it becomes at least I know how to work the site.
I could answer paul turner on his site but I'll do it here as he A keeps deleting my posts, which I'll list below, B keeps coming out with ever more bizarre lies about me being banned unbanned. C keeps banning me.
He's deleted the posts because he has the truth to hide, but I asked
"Interesting yes, perhaps Madhatter woke up smelled the coffee.
Do you feel that this site is a success, has it provided the people of the town a place to openly discuss things, a place for free speech, make new friends, get help and advice, and to promote the town, the book town, by discussing what should be done, what needs to be done, what needs to be changed, and by helping people tourists and people looking to move to Atherstone.
In my opinion you need glasses or a brain transplant if you do. This site is a three headed monster that has helped kill the booktown, put god knows how many off setting shops up in the town or moving there.
Mike goodenough recently said to me, yet another atherstone site, do they ever stop fighting in Atherstone. The answer would have to be, it appears not."
Paul answered with this
"Jay,
I have to give you a frank answer.
This site has helped the town in a number of ways. It has allowed discussion of local issues and particularly helped individuals to find old friends/family, organisations to promote local events and people who have moved away to keep in touch with what is going on here.
On the other hand it has had some negative effects.
We have made it clear that any negative comments about local businesses (including the Booktown) will not be tolerated on this site. I have had enough crap from people whose comments I have had to remove to last me a lifetime!!! However, it does appear to be the case that negativity expressed by a few people may have put potential bookshop owners off opening shops here.
I think you have to ask yourself a question regarding this:
If a potential business owner is willing to change his/her mind about starting a business based on the views of a small number of web forum users who can't seem to post anything positive whatever the subject is, then is that potential business owner really the sort of person that should be starting a business?
This is hardly the place to research a market! And that applies to bookshops AND any other business. The world is full of examples of people who have done well DESPITE the negativity of everyone around them as they were starting out. It is also full of examples of people who have given up at the first hurdle and blamed everything but themselves.
Web forums are, by their very nature, miserable negative places dominated by miserable people who always know better than everybody else about any subject. It is far easier to argue when hidden behind a nickname. These people would not be so quick to argue in face-to-face situations or even if they had to take ownership of their comments.
So, what do we do?
I have considered many many times whether to close this forum. It has caused me plenty of hassle over the last few years with little reward. It is a thankless task when everything you do will be considered wrong by somebody. You're damned if you censor stuff and you're damned if you don't.
The forum is here as a place where people can discuss local issues. It is only that. The views of those that post are not the views of us. We only provide the place to do the discussion. We are no more to blame for negativity than pub owners are for the discussion that takes place in their establishments.
I read EVERY SINGLE post and I can tell you, it is extremely boring sometimes! I do it to ensure that I am not held responsible for leaving libellous comments here and to ensure that whatever does get posted is not detrimental to the town's reputation. However, that leads to accusations of me manipulating the content of this forum.
Removing the forum would lead to other places being used for Atherstone discussion and I, personally, don't trust those other websites to behave responsibly in protecting the reputation of this town which, to be fair, is a very very good place to live with it's low crime rate, easy road access to the rest of the country as well as local larger towns and cities and its very friendly atmosphere.
Do I wish we'd never created this monster? Yes. I do. But we did and it's up to us to keep working on getting more positive contributions. It has certainly been much better lately.
With regard to MadHatter, he was a very positive member of this forum and very keen to say good things about the town. Unfortunately, he made a comment which offended another member and refused to remove it. Whether or not I agreed with his comment is irrelevant. Another member was offended so I removed it. MadHatter reposted the comment every time I removed it. I therefore banned him temporarily. When I lifted his ban in the hope that he had calmed down he immediately began posting messages about the same issue, repeating his accusations about that same member and accusing me of favouring that person over him.
I banned him a second time and let him back again, because of his past record of giving a positive contribution. He AGAIN came back, under different names, pretending to be somebody else supporting MadHatter's position and attacking both me and the member he had offended in the first place. I banned him a third time. He then got another member here to e-mail the content of this forum to him so he could set up his own forum, using the material from here to create discussion there, again attacking me.
I got sick of it. I am not the sort to go punching somebody's lights out because they annoy me, but if I was...........
He will be welcome back when he lets go of the issue and if he can convince me that he can behave like an adult. Understandably, I think, I trust him far less than I did."
to which I answered
"Just checked his posts, doesn't look like Madhatter has been used since your first ban, there are no posts about being banned. In fact he claims you never unbanned it in his subsequent names, in which he never claims to be anyone but himself. ??) I think you imagine things.
Are you sure you know how this forum works? A banned member can read everything you say, and download content. If you don't know that, are you sure you know how to unban an account?
Sounds to me like you create the problems on this site.
Sometimes you need to let negative posts remain, if only so that they can be discussed and debated. A negative thread about a booktown will only ever be a negative thread about a booktown if you close it before anyone can put a positive side to it. Leaving it open to debate will let all different views be aired and most of the time will balance out the negative. However if it remains negative and there is no positive side then only positive can come from this.
As for not trusting other websites to protect the reputation of the town, the above applies again. They also seem to be promoting the town rather than damaging the reputation of it. If a book shops closes such as Atherstone bookshop, which has closed and been replaced with a bookshop run by the heritage centre, then that story should be reported. The negative has a positive that also gets reported on those sites."
the above post was deleted along with the top post when paul posted this
MadHatter's (Jay's) posts deleted above and he has been banned again. I have left my response as his original question was quite a good one which deserved an answer. I responded before I realised that MadHatter was behind it AND with an agenda to lead onto further attacks on us."
the above was posted at 6.34, and I've since deleted two posts altered two, pm'd electrosoldier and wrinkley, this reinforces the point that he doesn't know how to work his own forum.
I should point out that I've never been able to access my madhatter name since it was first banned, so this is yet more lies. New allegations this time that I got someone to email me content, this is on top of allegations of me being firefox, lies that he has unbanned my account lies that another person on the forum has posted content on here, and lies that I stole content off the site and used it on here. Also false allegations from dpickard remain on the site accusing me of claiming he is a corrupt councilor which I have never done, that I am firefox.
I will expect more slanderous and abusive posts to be left on the forum and not deleted from the other members same as before.
All this makes me ask the question, when is a forum or site an asset to a town. Is a site that closes every critical thread before theres a chance for a balanced discussion to develop a damage to a town.
Personally I think paul closing the threads form Mark Bennett and leaving an announcement that he'd been banned while hiding the actual thread had a very negative impact on the booktown project. He tries to hide things that don't suit his own opinions, such as my comments above, clearly can't administrate the site, I had to tell him how to change thread titles, he previously deleted threads because he didn't know how to do it. He didn't know threads can be merged or split either. All this leads to content being deleted when there's no need to and threads that look a mess. This creates a bad impression of the forum and the town, as does his constant lies.
Atherstone organised has run stories both negative and positive, it is after all a news as well as an information site. I think it gives a balanced view and has done far more for the town than the above site ever will.
Atherstone booktown site, it took over a year to get a page other than a page with no links, now we have a site thats so out of date it will soon be antique. The murder mystery weekend was months ago, Atherstone bookshop has been replaced by another bookshop and we are still waiting for this new bookshop. An out of date site is a bad advertisement for the town.
Atherstone org appears to be dead which is a shame it was quite good although not updated for a while to the best of my knowledge.
Dickens night is a great site informative, well laid out lots of information and pictures
Carnival site, well what can I say the sites great, but we haven't really had a great carnival to post pics of yet, the forum is a farce. I got banned for answering a slating post about a member here who dared to criticise the Queens float. Based on that site I'd question whether they are infact up to running the carnival.
So there we have it for each negative there's a positive site.
I'm not sure where to put this site, maybe I'm creating a monster to but whatever it becomes at least I know how to work the site.
